The question of when Jesus will return is something that people have been asking, even before Jesus left this earth.
Matthew 24:3 “3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
Now let me say this before we get started. No one knows when Jesus will return. This topic of the return of Jesus will remain in the bucket of unsolved mysteries. The problem arises when a denomination or pastor claims that this topic is in the known facts bucket. Today we will discover why this is the case.
Everything we will say today is nothing more than our best attempt to educate you on the various thoughts and theories surrounding this. These competing theories have caused massive division in the church for a very long time. The church I grew up in, split in half over this very question. The denomination had one opinion and the pastor had a different one, so the pastor decided to split the church, instead of peacefully and quietly stepping away from that denomination.
When a topic causes this much division, who do you think is behind it? Satan. Do you remember the passage we looked at last week that talked about the works of the flesh? Dissensions and divisions are a part of that list.
If we cannot talk about a biblical topic without having an argument, we are allowing the enemy to have control over us.We should be able to have a great discussion about this topic without each side backing into their corner and putting up their defenses. When we talk, we are to be led by the Holy Spirit, and His fruit. Which includes peace, love, gentleness and kindness.
In that vein, let me share some things that almost all Christian denominations agree on.
1 - Great Tribulation.(Persecution and trouble in the earth.)
2 - Millennial Reign.(Jesus will reign on the earth for 1,000 years.)
3- Rapture of the church.(Caught up to meet Jesus in the air.)
Most denominations agree these things will happen. However, The timing of how these three things relate to each other, is what causes division among believers.
Our prayer is that you can suspend your currently held opinion for a few minutes, and open yourself up to the possibility that there is another way to look at things...that is just as legitimate as your way. You may come away from today still holding to your current belief, and that’s totally fine with us, but hopefully when we are done, you will know more about why you believe it.
The most common way to refer to the competing views of when Jesus will return are labeled Pre-trib and Post-trib. Broadly speaking, pre-trib just means that the “rapture will happen before the great tribulation. It is the next thing on God’s calendar and could happen at any minute. This is called the doctrine of Imminency. And also broadly speaking, post-trib means that the rapture will happen after the great tribulation. So it can’t happen at any moment, because there are things that have to happen first.
That seems simple until you ask these questions, “What is the great tribulation and what is the rapture?” The first thing we have to do is define the terms we are using. This the reason these two camps cannot come together in their thoughts. They define the terms differently. Why is that?
I think the first thing to bear in mind, is that these positions were largely developed in a day before technology allowed easy communication and discussion across the church broadly. I think we take for granted that we have bibles, youtube, and countless resources to learn from, but the main camps of this discussion sprung up during times in which the overwhelming majority of believers didn't even have access to bibles of their own and only could go on what their priest/pastor told them.
As we know, there was a lot of corruption in those early days when church and government were one. Certainly a lot of the institutional ideas were tailored for maximum control, not maximum honesty with the text.
Many of the doctrinal positions from that governmental church period can and have been largely discounted by plain reading of
the scriptures, and the main theories in contention today really come out of the later periods closer to the reformation and after people had access to God’s Word.
While there are elements of each main position being discussed as early as the first couple centuries after Jesus ascended, as for written doctrine, the newest one on the scene came out of the Albury prophecy conferences of the 1820’s first published in “Dialogs of Prophecy” as a result of those conferences, still before modern communication. This is the pre-trib rapture position.
Probably the biggest reason why, moving into the modern era, we struggle so much having this conversation now is that the underlying terms in the discussion were also defined differently when their interpretations were developed so many years ago.
We then come together and get all frustrated why we can't see it each other's way not realizing we're using the same words but talking about completely different things.
(For instance, if I say the word gravy, something comes to mind. Now if you are from the south, that means biscuits and gravy. But if you are Italian and from the northeast, you are thinking something completely different. They call tomato sauce gravy.)
First we need to answer the question, “What is the Rapture?”
It refers to when Jesus will send his angel to gather all believers yet living to be caught up together to Heaven. This is like what happened to Enoch and Elijah.
We believe this will happen at some point, because of passages like:
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 “51Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Matthew 24:29-31 “29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
These are just a few of several passages which discuss this, some like in Matthew, Mark, and Luke give more details on what that will look like on earth to those who remain, but
they all address the gathering together of people whose faith is in Jesus before judgement comes upon the earth.
The main wedge between perspectives on WHEN this happens, relative to other events, comes down to the main term defined differently, like the tree example Randall shared.
Tribulation is the big one. The Greek word here, Thlipsis, gets used 45 times in the new testament, and means pressure, pressing together, oppression, affliction, anguish, or distress.
Everywhere we see it being used in scripture it’s within a context of something we expect to endure in this life for Christ’s sake.
Matthew 24:9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.”
Matthew 13:21 “yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.”
That last one highlights that the world will persecute us because of His Word. When we stand in it, and preach it, we will get pushback from the enemy.
But those of you with strong opinions on the topic will say, “Certainly there’s a difference between standard daily tribulation and The Great Tribulation!?”
Well, that’s interesting. When we’re talking end times and rapture stuff, we’re really talking about when the church gets removed relative to what’s going on in the earth during these last years before Jesus returns.
There is a time at the VERY end, called the Time of Jacob’s Trouble. This comes from Jeremiah 30, where God promises that
after they (Israel) are scattered again to all nations, He will preserve them and gather them back together under Messiah as King while destroying every nation from which they were rescued.
As for Revelation, if you’re being consistent, this begins at the sealing of the 144,000. This is the first time in end times events you see an emphasis on the Jews, and certainly from that point forward the focus is on them.
This comes right as Jesus is loosing the seventh seal, which makes sense if you remember the book he’s unsealing is the title deed to the earth, and therefore is about to lay claim to it
and judge it. He’s about to destroy the nations as prophesied in Jeremiah, and is protecting the Jews in readiness for that.
Here's something important. Both Pre and Post Trib people generally agree that the church is NOT here on the earth for the period known as the time of Jacob’s trouble.
Before that, we’re told there is great tribulation in the world as the seals are being opened and Satan gets quite rambunctious anticipating Jesus showing up. The BIG thing I want to point out, is that Revelation 7, AFTER the seals, is the ONLY time SOME translations use the phrase “the great tribulation,” and even still I ONLY found it in newer translations. Older translations in multiple languages only say there’s great tribulation in the world, as in a lot of it, not using the definite article “the” to make it a distinct period in time.
And this is where the big debate happens. Despite many things they might argue over, if you boil it down and get on the same page with terms, what they are really disagreeing on is whether or not the Time of Jacob’s Trouble is the same as the time of great tribulation.
The pre-trib camp would say they are, and therefore the church is not around at all during the opening of the seals when persecution is at it’s highest. Typically they would also teach that God is personally responsible for that tribulation, which is why Christians can’t be there.
When God is doing tribulation, it’s actually called Wrath. It’s His divine justice, which He is righteous in delivering. Scripture clearly teaches that those who are in Christ, are exempt from enduring God’s Wrath. Therefore, if the pre-trib people are correct that these 2 time periods are the same time period, then they would be accurate with their position.
This position then also comes with a couple of challenges. One is what they teach as the doctrine of immanence. What this says is that Jesus could take His church at any moment and there is NOTHING required to come to pass beforehand.
Just because Jesus might come back before the peak of tribulation in the earth, doesn’t exempt the church from it entirely. IF you think it does, I’d ask you to reach out to our brothers and sisters in the middle east, or China, etc.
America is growing increasingly hostile towards Christianity, and it’s entirely possible we end up on the chopping block before the end, but unfortunately a lot of pre-trib people have fallen for the idea that they are somehow exempt from real suffering on account of how comfortably we’ve had it in the west. This could be catastrophic if things turn sour for us.
On the post-trib side then, they would see the great tribulation and the time of Jacob’s trouble as separate events. To them, the seals are taking place in heaven, and meanwhile satan is ramping up persecution in the earth, and the church is here for it. Once that time is nearing completion, at the opening of the sixth seal, is when the rapture is expected.
This doesn’t in fact give us any kind of real marker for when to expect it, because we’re not privy to what’s happening in the throne room, but it does at least mean that when it happens it will accompany certain signs that will let the world know exactly what happened and who’s responsible when it does.
The post-trib folks then, would not believe in imminency the way pretrib would. While we won’t know it before it comes, so it feels rather imminent, there would in fact be the opening of the seals required, which means the man of sin would be revealed on the earth prior to the rapture according to post trib. Who is the man of sin, are we talking about the antichrist?
Good question. The one we often think of as “antichrist” is actually called by 46 different names in the Bible, none of which are actually “antichrist.” There are 33 in the Old Testament, 13 in the New. The term antichrist is used 4 times and means “false Christ” suggesting a counterfeit, and when used in scripture it is referring to a recurring thing.
1 John 4:3 “And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is the spirit of antichrist, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is in the world.”
2 John 1:7 “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”
The one, seed of the serpent, the beast, the man of sin, will indeed come with the spirit of antichrist, but is a singular person, not just the general spirit itself.
That DOESTN’T necessarily mean we’ll know exactly who we’re dealing with though we might suspect. The man of sin will be one
who conquers by peace, and his true nature is revealed when he declares himself to be god and goes on a genocidal rampage, which post would generally put after the rapture still.
Amongst other places, 2 Thessalonians is a major text to support this idea.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 “1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
(the gathering together to Jesus, speaking of the rapture in the post trib mind)
2 That ye be not shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who oppeseth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now restraineth will restrain, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:”
In the post trib reading of this passage, they’re looking at it like, the man of sin rises to power, but when he reveals his NATURE,
declaring himself to be god, is when the wickedness is revealed. The pre trib folks only really focus on the restraining part of this passage and point to the church as the one which restrains, and the rapture is in view regarding being taken away.
I think both camps should agree that’s what it’s saying, however the post (camp) acknowledges that won’t happen until AFTER the man of sin is revealed, which destroys the doctrine of imminency, if true.
If you want to believe in the post trib side, be warned that you’ll find a tendency to be lazier. Heed Jesus’s words when he asks what will He find you doing when He comes? Just because you THINK you might notice the signs in time to clean yourself up just in time to meet Him doesn’t mean you will, and you’ll still risk losing rewards from your King.
Let’s summarize the pros and cons of each position.
A pre-tirbulation rapture belief is better at building a mindset of readiness for Christ’s return.
A post-tribulation rapture belief is better at building strength for endurance under pressure from the world.
A well rounded Christian should already be doing both of these things.
On the flip side, a pre-tribulation rapture belief tends to be worse at building endurance for anticipated persecution
And a post-tribulation rapture belief is worse creating the urgency to do Christ’s work now and not delay, assuming Christ is delayed
Whatever you choose to believe on this stuff, more power to you, but keep this in mind:
Be READY for His coming, and be BUSY while you wait! Do that and you’ll have too much to do be get bothered over who’s right or wrong on this debate, and certainly you won’t be dividing over it with brothers and sisters in Christ.
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